The results are in from my "Is Honey Vegan?" online poll. And you all had a lot to say! The largest percentage of votes - 41% - went to the "I am vegan, and NO honey is not vegan" segment of the voters. Full results ahead...
Great Comments! Loved all the comments, even the kooky ones. A few of the my faves:
Funniest: "..bees are tied to wherever their nest is. They do not flit about and have raves every evening at different nests. " -Anonymous
"How about tapping a maple tree? ... [I'm not being a jerk, I'm really asking.]" -KT_
Good Points: "I believe we shouldn't farm animals or insects no matter how small" -Sarah
"As humans we are often trying to fit ourselves into a box of standards based one what the "collective" has decided. I know many vegans who don't eat honey simply because they are told it's not vegan, but will stomp on a spider without hesitation should one crawl across their bathroom floor." -Erika
Most Passionate: "... I am personally offended by individuals who consume honey yet refer to themselves as vegan." -Adam
Click ahead for more chosen comments, and full poll results. And find out what I think on this issue...
Why the Poll? I ran this poll because like many people, the issue still conflicts me. Early on in my blog I would add agave/maple and/or honey options in my recipes. And I got a lot of emails saying that honey is not vegan. I never knew how passionate the non-honey eaters were about the issue until I started this blog. So being incredibly curious, I decided to post this poll. Not a scientific poll by any means, but I find the results interesting. But the comments are amazing, thoughtful...and entertaining.
My View. I love agave and maple syrup, so I really have no need for honey, but I will admit that I haven't banned it from my diet. If I'm in a restaurant ordering tea and it's between bleached white sugar, pink packets or honey-I will go with the honey. Although, I greatly respect any vegans who believe honey is not vegan. And yes, honey is technically an animal product (or insect product), right? , so does that make me not-vegan for eating it? Or do we need another term for vegans who do and do not eat honey? Beegans? Ugh, labels labels labels...
The Results:
(note the poll is still live and so votes are still being counted.)
total votes at review: 283
Yes Honey is vegan: 39%
No Honey is not Vegan: 61%
Broken down by vegan/nonvegan voters:
41% Vegans: honey isn't vegan
20% Vegans: honey is vegan
19% Non-vegans: honey is vegan
20% Non-vegans: honey isn't vegan
Now let's look at the entertaining and thought-provoking comments section...
Your Comments. My Faves. These are blog-reader comments that I thought everyone should read, but I don't necessarily agree with all of them...
"As humans we are often trying to fit ourselves into a box of standards based one what the "collective" has decided. I know many vegans who don't eat honey simply because they are told it's not vegan, but will stomp on a spider without hesitation should one crawl across their bathroom floor." -Erika
"Most vegans do eat honey, even though it's not technically vegan. I agree with Gregor--the honey issue makes us look foolish. There are good reasons to not eat honey but it should not be a prerequisite for being vegan if we want a vegan world."
-Anonymous
"Response to anonymous from tangerine: anon, yeah it does make us foolish, b/c honey is the easiest thing to give up out of all animal products- and yet some won't for some reason. " -tangerine
"I love this debate. Some have told me I am not a vegan because I occasionally use honey! I buy only raw honey from a local producer that is super nice to the bees. I have needed honey for the antibacterial properties while I lose weight and heal my body. Sorry anti honey vegans 🙁 " -VeganWoman
"I agree with VeganWoman. I really don't consider honey an animal product. Yes, I know - bees are insects - insects are animals but I never consider honey as being non-vegan. That's my opinion. "-Ina
"I don't think being honey-less is a rule within veganism, but it's more a matter of choice. "-Erin
"My not eating honey or any other animal product has nothing to do with the cuteness or icky factor.
Bottom line is: honey is an animal product, produced by the bees for the bees. Humans have no place in this equation. It is an animal product, just as much as milk and eggs are.
Additionally honey isn't vegan according to Vegan Society, that coined the term. I might sound picky, but hey I cant really tell anyone what to eat, but the sensible thing would be not to label ourselves something we're not. I don't understand why some fish & chicken eating ppl call themselves vegetarians. Or why some so called vegans eat eggs... It's really making it more difficult for the rest of us when ordering veg*n in a restaurant. So please lets use proper labels or for those of you who find these labels inadequate- feel free to come up with new ones!"
-Tangerine
"Bees are disappearing at an alarming rate today, and we don't know why. Without these honey bees the plants we love to eat wouldn't be able to survive either! So I support local honey, which supports maintaining our bee populations and our local agriculture!"
-cinnamonapple
"Response to Cinnamon Apple from tangerine: "Cinnamon: beekeepers are not in the business of supporting nor maintaining bee population. In theory you could build an artificial beehive if you really were worried about the bee population and then let the bees take care of the rest. But in practice the beekeepers exploit these creatures and take whats naturally theirs- honey - and then feed them sugared water. If I were a bee I'd be pissed-" -anonymous
"By definition honey is not vegan...Vegan is not a slang term and I am personally offended by individuals who consume honey yet refer to themselves as vegan." Adam K.
".....you are stealing this honey from the bee. Do not make the mistake in thinking honey is a waste product or that these insects are not killed by the masses for their energy product." -Adam K.
"I believe we shouldn't farm animals or insects no matter how small" -Sarah M.
"How about tapping a maple tree? ... [I'm not being a jerk, I'm really asking.]" -KT_K
"...if I were cooking for a group of Vegans, honey would definitely not appear on my ingredient list. " -Erika
"I love honey, but don't eat it very often. Back when I first became vegan, I googled honey to find out what atrocities were being inflicted on the poor bees. Couldn't find much, except that they were being fed sugar water to replace their honey. I also read that bee keepers are quite fond of their bees, and take very good care of them. They (the bees) are also free to roam wherever, and return to their comb. In the spirit of veganism... maybe we could make an exception??" -DJ Karma
"Honestly, how many vegans do you know who care about the well being of arthropods? I don't lose sleep at night over tenting our house for termites. It's as simple as that." - Sherrilee
"If you eat honey, then your not a vegan (veganism = to the furthest extent limit exploitation of ALL animals - hence, honey isn't vegan).
Your just as the ovo-veggies calling them self vegeterians" -Karpasz
"For the argument that bees are somehow mistreated by not being allowed to 'fly free' I offer this: bees are tied to wherever their nest is. They do not flit about and have raves every evening at different nests. Therefore orchestrating where they could set up a nest (it is ultimately their choice as we have seen with the recent accounts of bees abandoning their nests) is not cruel." -Anonymous
"it is not vegan. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to figure out - an animal is an animal is an animal. Just because it's an insect and not a cuddly piglet doesn't mean it's not an animal. Sorry - sometimes a lifestyle choice is hard but if you consume an animal product you're not a vegan. Deal with it." -Anonymous
See the original Is Honey Vegan Poll post here.
Anonymous says
hmm.. interesting text :))
Anonymous says
Wow... with all of the atrocities being committed in the world as we speak, vegans sit around arguing about whether or not eating honey is exploiting bees.
Seriously? There are more important things to worry about than the trivial pursuits of ultimately ethical eating.
I'm sure all of you eat plenty of fruits and nuts. Well, did you know ALL of you are exploiting bees in when you buy and eat those items!?! Did you know most farmers (organic or not) actually rent out bee hives so that the bees will pollinate their plants?? Looks like you're going to have to start growing your own food to truly live the vegan lifestyle.
Hate to be the Debbie Downer but my argument makes all of you look like nuts... no pun intended.
(FYI-I'm a medical student, incredibly focused on nutrition and I'm not anti-vegan, but I hate to see good brain-power wasted on dumb arguments).
JPool says
Nice photo.
"Vegan" actually isn't a category of food labeling in the US, and wouldn't it be better, both politically and by by of consumer information, to be more concretely specific in terms of what sorts of ingredients a product has or doesn't have (ie, honey-free, nut free, dairy-free, etc).
I've been vegetarian for 20 years and was vegan for about five of those, or none, depending on how you come down on the honey issue.
The thing is, arguing about whether something is vegan or not a) is not the relevant question, b) makes vegans seem like fundamentalist freaks. The relevant question is, do you think that it's ethical to consume a, b or c under x, y or z conditions. We all do the best we can and no one can completely separate themselves from animal confinement or suffering. If you want to advance the cause of animal welfare, then you're better off trying to convince people that there are good reasons why they shouldn't consume or do something, rather than decreeing that they must be cast out from your club as unclean.
Anonymous says
honey is delicious.
a pancake should never go without it.
Allie says
I think it's important to note, for those who say "the spider is in my territory" or variants thereof, that the spider has no concept of human constructs such as "my house," or the like. These animals do not have the ability to understand higher cognitive concepts, so holding them to things that are purely of human construct is irrational and not really in keeping with the idea of not harming nature.
Additionally, in nature, nothing "belongs" to anyone/thing.
I believe the other commenters addressed the points I'd also wanted to make.
Anonymous says
I think for food labeling purposes you need to define some sort of terms, not that I particularly agree with the standards now, but they are a start.
However, the idea that someone thinks their diet, moreover a lifestyle choice can fit under a "simple" definition or list of things they don't eat or use is hilarious and most likely ineffective at its core goals.
I don't like giving myself labels. I don't eat meat, and I seldom eat dairy or eggs. Largely for health reasons and because those are my personal preferences taste-wise. I do what I can to try not to negatively impact all aspects of the environment, animal and human life. Sometimes the choices I make are not always vegan (or vegetarian even) by strictest definition.
I highly doubt that boxing yourself into choices by a simple definition of what it means to be a vegan is going to consistently yield favorable outcomes. You have to be willing to look at the bigger picture. I know vegans as broke as myself who roll their eyes at fact I wear second-hand leather shoes, yet don't think twice about who is being exploited by buying cotton and canvas from old navy that looks as if they won't last the season. Not to mention the general destruction from creating new 'vegan' products.
I would think in some cases eating honey may the better choice. It really depends on what the alternatives are, but acting as if it's blasphemy for someone whose leading an otherwise vegan lifestyle is not only narrow-minded, but ultimately short-sighted. It's simply not black and white, as few things in life are.
Melissa says
If any of you were TRULY vegan you
-wouldn't eat food grown using animal-based fertilizers
-wouldn't eat any produce that utilizes domesticated bees as pollinators
-wouldn't eat food harvested mechanically because it kills quite a lot of animals living in the fields
I just eliminated most of the food in the grocery store and I could go on. My profession is agronomy and even growing vegetables is hardly kind to animals.
There is a tiny, but growing movement for vegan agriculture, but it's not going to supply most of us for food yet. I guess the people who are eating this way now are the true vegans.
Anonymous says
I have bees- I am a vegetarian, not a vegan. I raise them for a combination of reasons- to bump up the numbers of honey bees in America, because it's therapeutic to work with them and I love the lil gals, and because they provide me with a completely natural sweetener source. I keep them on 300 acres of pesticide-free land with huge water and nectar sources. I care for them as if they were any other animal- if they are sick, I find ways to heal them, and if they are under attack by pests that pose harm to them, I remove the threat in a non-invasive way- outside of that, they are on their own. I remove only the honey that they don't need for winter stores- they'd never be able to consume all of the honey they produce (we're in a highly productive area when it comes to nectar sources- additionally, too much honey in the supers and the bees lose interest in capping it- you end up with honey fermenting in your top supers, which is bad). I don't believe I've ever killed a bee in my work- if you work carefully, you shouldn't, and it's part of the effort to not rile them up (one sting and one squash equates to a pheromone release and a bunch of angry bees). I smoke them liberally before pulling frames, and everything goes as planned. They help keep our farm up and going! Comparing them to slaves is absolutely ridiculous- our rescued cattle aren't slaves, they live their lives freely on wide grass pastures and are there for no other purpose than to just live- can you name a better, more natural place for them? They are a domestic animal after all- I can't stick my Chihuahua out on 300 acres of land and expect it to survive on its own. I honestly can't see the difference between having bees and having a cat- the cat has a more controlled life than the bees! The bees are just free to exist on their own, with the hive for shelter (though if they swarm and move to a tree trunk, that's their prerogative) and some assistance from me to help keep them healthy. You teach your cat to crap in a box, feed it kibble, get it fixed and teach it tricks- how is that better? Vegan is in the eye of the beholder- some people interpret it more reasonably than others. Do you think your agave nectar is harvested without harm to insects? Think again- it's just part of life that something will, along the way, die for you to eat. More vegans need to spend time closer to their food sources- I'd like to see a field of vegans picking the bugs off of their organically grown lettuce. I'd also like to see them raise a bed of completely organic heirloom tomatoes without any loss of life to insects- you will enjoy very few tomatoes, if your plants come under attack- not to mention the earthworm deaths from tilling the garden- the nature of, well, nature is the biggest problem with veganism, my friends.
Anonymous says
Since my home is my home, the bugs are intruding.
--------------------
You can track this back even farther than your home. Building your home displaced untold numbers of native insects and animals. You are intruding on their space. The bugs are the indigenous population and you're the invading settler.
We all make our own choices and draw the moral line in the sand in a different spot. No one position on honey is superior to another and the non-honey eaters don't have exclusive rights to the word "vegan."
Lyra says
So... about the sugar water thing. In large-scale, corporate bee farming, bees are fed high fructose corn syrup between their agricultural jobs of pollinating almond trees, apple trees, etc.
...and we're wondering why our bees are dying off?
Honey is technically not vegan. We've pretty much all said that at this point.
I look at it like this: getting honey from quality local farms who treat their animals (or insects, in this case) well under comfortable conditions is far better than spending all the extra energy to have someone far, far away from you harvest, process, process, process, package, and ship sugar or agave ever-so-conveniently to your doorstep.
When I was living in central-coast BC, it took two ferries to get anything shipped in from the continental states (that's where it was coming from, not directly from Mexico or Hawaii) before it arrived to me. Agave and Organic sugar were exceedingly expensive, but I could get quality, raw organic honey from a friend who lived ten minutes from me.
Given that situation, what would you choose? Animal rights or Planetary rights?
Finally, where do you draw the line? There's a reason why U.S. food standards allow a certain number of insect parts per ounce of food sold. That's because bugs get into industrial scale operations and are killed. They're ground up with flour, soybeans, and agave. If you're worried about insect rights, you need to stop buying flour, soy, or anything else that been processed on an industrial scale. And that's without even beginning to look at the insecticides those operations spread around.
Small organic local farms that treat their bees with respect and love are much better for insects and the planet than industrial-scale agriculture and food processing.
Eva says
This debate has always fascinated me, not least of all because the logic around not eating honey as a vegan always seems a bit... counter-intuitive to me. On the one hand, bees are animals and thus their rights and lives should be respected. This is absolutely sound logic. However, if it's taken to its logical extension, conventionally-grown produce wouldn't be vegan either (as Jerry said above) because many animals are killed in the process. In this sense, drawing the line is quite difficult.
As others have said before me, it seems much more important to do one's best to respect animals, plants, and the environment in whatever ways we can, individually. It's more effective to win others over with a good argument than with a holier-than-thou rant on a (virtual) soapbox, or an accusatory attitude.
This is the kind of debate that makes me wary of vegans, sadly, despite several of my very good friends being vegan (or beegan? I really don't know). I often get the sense they've lost sight of the pleasure to be gained from eating seasonally, locally, and consciously.
Ellen says
i think that it is a non-issue. vegans have different reasons for their dietary choices and i feel like each should decide for themselves. honey bees are vital to the ecosystem, but are disappearing so it's a good thing that people out there DO eat honey as an incentive for people to keep them around. the strictness of labels is problematic for me because i feel like any concerned vegan would want others to be AS CLOSE to vegan as possible. being so strict is completely alienating and seems counterproductive.
there are benefits to consuming honey, but there are also a lot of alternatives available. if it makes you uncomfortable to not eat honey, then don't do so. seems simple to me!
Elaine Vigneault says
Honey is not vegan, plain and simple.
Zucchini Breath says
ooh, excuse me, I am going to get my rant on right now.
Vegan is very specific and very simple. Consume No Animal Products and Cause As Little Harm As Possible.
How would you like it if someone was harvesting your bodily fluids without your written consent?
Bees are sentient beings. They have thoughts, feelings, and an agenda that has nothing to do with me.
I do my best not to consume any animal products or harm any being, but if mice and mosquitoes and flies (who just want to eat me, eat my food and to poop in my food) come into my kitchen they are at the mercy of my cat and my fly swatter. If I can't shoo them out, I will kill them because of hygiene. I don't want to eat anyone's poop.
Most animals make for themselves and don't ask anything from me. Some insects (and some people) are parasites and they have no place in my life or in bees lives. Or chicken's or pig's or cow's lives either.
Human consumption of honey is unnecessary. I don't care how "nice" the beekeeper is, he's still a slave owner and there is no such thing as a happy slave.
Leave the bees be. They didn't make that honey for you, they made it for baby bees.
Call yourself a beegan or whatever you want, but vegan is vegan. it means no animal products.
Thanks for listening. But even my cat can listen. I hope you understand.
Anonymous says
cute bee.
Francesca says
I am vegan and honey is definitely not vegan.
Sure bees rights, leads to ants rights, and termites rights.
My philosophy is... we can't try to control every species on earth. When I am outside I do not kill bees or ants. Such as when I am sitting out on my patio. I am choosing to be in nature, bugs homes. Inside is a different story, while I try not to kill spiders or bugs in my house, if there is an infestion of termites, I will try home natural remedies before trying to control them with pesticides. Since my home is my home, the bugs are intruding.
There is nothing wrong with termite rights, every creature deserves them.
Anonymous says
I am vegan. I believe honey is an iffy subject.
Just as I use burts bees as chapstick, I eat honey on occassion. It's a more natural sweetener, and I know people who just smoke the bees out for a few minutes to collect some honey on private farms and I know where to get honey such as that.
I feel guilty everytime I eat honey, or use my burt's bees. I feel slightly hypocritical. However, I try to stay away from honey as much as possible. As for burt's bees...It's seriously the only chapstick that works for me.
Jerry says
Unless the 'don't eat honey' vegans value insects more than humans, they shouldn't be using a computer to post comments...the trade to obtain the raw materials used in computer chips is just as bad as the blood diamond trade! Furthermore, eating vegetables kills insects -- if you know anything about the supply chain. So stop being silly and stating that vegans shouldn't eat honey. If you believe otherwise, stop using a computer... and stop eating vegetables.
DJ Karma says
@ Rebecca: LOL! That is a funny point. How far should vegans go? I will kill a fly, mosquito or ant without much guilt if it's in my house. And if we're going as far as talking dust mites- I'll vacuum those suckers up any day! Show me evidence that beekeeping is harming the environment, and I'll stand behind the "honey isn't vegan" issue 100 percent.
seamaiden says
I don't claim to be vegan, but even when I did try to be vegan, I didn't really see the point of protecting insect rights. I feel for cows and chickens that ARE abused by modern dairy/egg practices, but my heart just doesn't bleed for the bee in his beehive. Sorry bees. I like you fine in general except when you sting me, just don't feel bad about taking your honey. And spiders better stay out of my house!
People get really uptight about labels and vegans or vegetarians that cheat- but personally I think kudos to anyone trying to engage in a diet considerate of animal welfare, even if they don't meet up to everyone's high and mighty standards. If you believe that eating vegetarian (or vegan) is the moral way to behave, any steps in that direction would seem to be a positive one to me! Being exclusive and judgmental just seems like a good way to discourage people from trying to live their lives more ethically. *shrug*
Interesting, thought provoking post. Thanks!
Rebecca~ says
Nice post. Wow, people are really hard core about this issue. I agree that the label of vegan needs to be taken seriously for food-labeling standards. But really, who really says that honey is an animal product. Isn't it an insect product?
...Bee rights leads to ant rights leads to termite rights and finally dustmite right...
...Still confused on this issue. Good discussion to continue though.
Rebecca~
Jill says
That bee is adorable chika.